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DCS: WW2 Europe 1944


Silver_Dragon

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illya confirma que va ha hacer un video SDK de EDGE.

 

Hey guys,
Quick update. Just to get some of you a bit more excited.
We finally have a decision on the EDGE SDK.
It's a YES!
I'm doing a quick video about it and recording some footage from inside EDGE. Should be a quick video to make, look for it later tonight.
Hopefully we can organize a community effort to create more landscapes for DCS WWII. This can mean a community-created Southern England, or Ardennes, or Market Garden, or Ruhr, there are tons of options and I really look forward to a discussion on this topic!
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Nuevo update a falta de cuatros días para que finalice la campaña. En este último dan prioridad a los que apoyan el proyecto, para así conseguir el objetivo de los 150.000$ y del Me262. También permiten otra forma de pago a través del Paypal.

The Battle of the Stretch Goal, Part II - Changes!

Update #9

We've had a very lively discussion after my update yesterday. Thank you everyone who chipped in.

We are going ahead with the changes we've suggested. It appears that a large majority of current backers support it, and many people who have not yet backed the project are also for it.
The change does not affect ANY backer of ANY level. Your pledge, your rewards, and the planes you receive in the initial release are exactly as previously stated. This is a change only to the free version of DCS WWII available to non-backers.
We strongly believe that making this change will, in the end, provide for a better WWII flight sim series to all project backers.
Why do this? A decision is only as good as the data it's based on. Based on what we projected before the campaign began, we believed the old way was the best way to go. Seeing the campaign as it actually ran, we realized a change was needed.
Why do this now? We would have likely reduced the number of free aircraft in the initial release in any case. Doing it while the Kickstarter campaign is still gong is the most transparent way to do this. We are letting you know what the project is exactly so you can make the most informed decision about backing it. If we were to make this change six months from now, some backers and many non-backers would surely wish they had backed this project differently.
Will this change again? No. If you'll notice, none of the changes made during the kickstarter affect the actual development in any way. We are making the aircraft, working on the landscape, writing single-player scripts. That's the actual project development. None of that changes.
A kickstarter pledge is a contract between the backer and the developer. We have to deliver the features and the rewards as promised. We have to deliver the product you backed. The features, the plane list, the number of flyable aircraft you receive per pledge, all those things are set in stone and will not, can not change.
In the end, our overall obligation is to the project. It is envisioned as a start of a new simulation series. This is what we want. I'm sure that this is also what the backers want. Our job is to ensure that not only do the backers get the sim as described in the initial release, but that we also deliver a healthy product that will survive and grow and give our backers a better, longer, more varied flight sim experience.
That is the main reason for this change.
So, the free non-backer version of DCS WWII will now contain one aircraft, to be voted for by backers after the kickstarter ends.
THIS CHANGE AFFECTS ONLY THOSE WHO DO NOT BACK THE PROJECT.
If you back the project at any time before the funding period ends on October 5th, your content and all rewards will be as previously stated.
Here's what you'll be able to fly:
$0 (non-backer): ONE aircraft (either P-47, Spitfire, or Bf.109, to be voted for by backers)
$1: THREE aircraft (P-47, Spitfire, and Bf.109)
$20: FOUR aircraft (P-47, Spitfire, Bf.109, plus one more of your choice)
$30: FIVE aircraft (P-47, Spitfire, Bf.109, plus two more of your choice)
$40: ALL aircraft (all aircraft in the initial release)
Let's get that Me.262! The stretch goal is well within reach. We're almost half-way there already!
If you have not yet pledged, now is the time to get up to SIX DCS P-51 level aircraft for only $40.
Only four days left!
Also, we're working hard to have PayPal options ready for those who cannot pledge via the options available on KickStarter. We're working to have an easy storefront interface and streamlined rewards.
Edited by papa_Osi
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Update 6 KickStarter DCS: World WW2 1944

 

You've asked for it. We've discussed it. Now we're very happy to announce that we will be releasing the EDGE landscape engine SDK to Kickstarter backers.
The SDK can be used to create new landscapes for the DCS WWII project. It's an all-in-one tool that combines a 3D object library, texture manager, and a landscape editor. With a full 24-hour day cycle, options for multiple seasons and time periods on the same map, and industry-best level of detail, EDGE is designed for and tested by real pilots to ensure it meets the highest standards of realism.
Please note that the Normandy landscape shown in the video is an early mock-up using temporary stand-in objects,mock-up trees, and low-quality placeholder textures.
We're really hoping that the community can organize a concentrated effort to design and create one or more new landscapes for DCS WWII. With the amount of time we have before the initial release, it should be possible to have them completed for the day-one release of Europe 1944!
A more detailed look at the tools and the technical details of the design process will be released at a later time. The SDK itself should be available later this year. Please note that the SDK will be released to project backers only and / or will require a signed NDA to use.
Edited by Silver_Dragon
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Q&A DCS: WW2 Terrain SDK

 

 

Originally Posted by Cornbread View Post
OK, so, if the SDK is going to be released in about a month, does this mean the lid finally comes off with regard to the secrecy of EDGE technical features?
This is the landscape editor. All its features will indeed be revealed.
However the ability to compile the final map and to let tanks drive or planes fly over the new landscape will not be released out. So, many features that relate to the terrain's implementation within the game will not be a part of the SDK.

 

 

Originally Posted by empeck View Post
Could you elaborate a bit? What else will be needed to make new, fully functional map for DCS World/WW2? If SDK isn't enough, then what's the point of releasing it?
The point of releasing the SDK is so that maps can be made faster by the community than RRG can make themselves, without giving all the tools to make it functional. This will let them put more attention to the aircraft. Enough will be provided to make the land, but the final conversion process of it to let it plug into DCS/DCS WWII will be done by ED or RRG. This would act as quality control, which is in my opinion a good thing.

 

 

Originally Posted by White Owl View Post
Would it be possible to use this editor to expand the edges of an already existing map? I'm thinking of how much we want just a few airbases in Southern England. I'm thinking that maybe instead of creating a wholly new map, we could make the existing map larger.
A map in EDGE actually has real-world coordinated connected to a virtual globe. It has constraints.
You could create your own landscape project that borders an existing map.
Then you could just join the two projects together, and have them combined.
That's how, for example, you could join forces between multiple creators working on the same map. Just split it, then join it.
Theoretically you could do silly things like take Normandy, make Scotland, and make Ruhr, then join them together. You'd be able to take off from Scotland, climb, fly over barren nothing below, cross over pretty Normandy, fly over some more nothing, bomb a factory, and then go back home.

 

 

Originally Posted by SilentEagle View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this would make it impossible for developers to test their creations in the simulator. That seems pretty counterproductive. As a developer myself, I find this part hard to understand. If the concern is an oversaturation of mediocre or "half-baked" terrains, why release the tools to all backers in the first place. Why not just just to those with serious interest and capability, such as how 3rd party development of aircraft is currently operating?
If a user wanted to create a free terrain or even one that was only used by himself, would he really need to have ED/RRG convert it for him. What about every time he wanted to make a change?
Guys, we have an SDK for a game that's not out yet.
Even if we were to release the EDGE source code as freeware, you'd be in the exact same boat. Build, create, compile, and then what?
Until you have at least the DCS WWII alpha, you have no game in which you can fly over your terrain.
We cannot release an even earlier build than our alpha.
The SDK comes with its own landviewer, which is the app in which I did all the footage in the latest vid. That's where you'll test your landscape.
I'm sure we'll have the outstanding questions resolved well before DCS WWII hits alpha. Once we have an official stance on commercial use of EDGE by 3rd parties, everything else will follow naturally.
With non-commercial use, we're obviously interested in having a large amount of user-made content. We're also a very small team and we can't be the quality control or the publisher for everything our users make.
The only reason to release an SDK is to help your product grow. No one on this side has any desire to be the bottleneck in that process.

 

 

Originally Posted by aaron886 View Post
Luthier, can you shed some more light on the purpose for restricting the SDK? Will this be specifically for DCS:WWII purposes, or will 3rd parties be able to create sceneries unbound by the WWII theme? I like what you're saying, I just want to see an improvement of the simulator as a whole.

 

Originally Posted by empeck View Post
SDK won't work with DCS: World? Lets say, wouldn't it be possible to make a tiny map for DCS: World? Like Corsica from the video or even smaller.
There's pretty much one game engine at this point.
What works in DCS WWII works in DCS World, at least on the developers' machines as of this very second.
You can theoretically create anything you want, but I really have nothing to do with DCS World as a product line.
The reason why we are talking about the SDK now, the reason why we're releasing it when we are, is DCS WWII specifically.
I personally am interested in garnering and supporting a large-scale community effort to create new WWII content. Here, my main goal is to make sure we have as many talented, dedicated people working on this as possible, and that they enjoy doing it and want to keep doing it long enough to finish the process.
If we just put hurdles in their path, prevent them from seeing their own work, or provide poor support, then this entire effort is wasted: me making that video, discussing this now, us making the effort to create the SDK for external consumption, future discussions with backers, writing tech specs, etc etc etc. There's no point in us doing any of that if we'll give you the kind of SDK that people play with for a while, shrug their shoulders, and go find something better to do with their time.
This I guess should be a more important point than any technical details. Not what we're doing, but why we're doing it.
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El anuncio oficial:

 

Please only use PayPal if you are unable to plegde via Kickstarter!
Please click here for PayPal option for DCS WWII.
Please note that your PayPal pledges will not be automatically added to the kickstarter total. These will be tallied manually and published about twice a day.
The PayPal total will be added to the kickstarter total for the overall project pledge amount.
The biggest difference is the fact that the reward matrix shown on the PayPal page is a bit different from Kickstarter rewards.
The add-on rewards are ANY combination of the items listed below:
PHYSICAL EXTRAS
Strategy Manual (available Sept 2014)
Plane Manual - P-51 (available Dec 2013)
Plane Manual - FW-190 (available Feb 2014)
Plane Manual - Spitfire (available Sept 2014)
Plane Manual - P-47 (available Sept 2014)
Plane Manual - Bf.109 (available Sept 2014)
Plane Manual - Me.262 (available Sept 2014)
Project T-Shirt (available Dec 2013)
Project Poster (no frame) (available Dec 2013)
DIGITAL EXTRAS
Alpha Access to DCS WWII (available Feb 2014)
Copy of DCS World: P-51D Mustang (available Oct 2013)
SPECIAL: Copy of DCS World: FW.190D-9 (available Feb 2014). ONLY AVAILABLE WITH THE $80 PLEGE OR HIGHER.
Any combination means exactly that! If you select a reward tier with four extras, you can make it four different items, or four copies of the same item, or three copies of one item and one of the other, or any other combination you can think of.
Why are we not adding the same matrix to Kickstarter?
We are not doing another reshuffling of the rewards because the system is already confusing as it is. We cannot remove or hide existing rewards. The only change available is to add another set of rewards, and that would make the list even more confusing to choose from.
If you feel strongly about the matter and you think we should add another dozen rewards to the Kickstarter, please let us know. If there is strong backer support for it, we will definitely do it.
Our main goal is to make all our backers happy. This includes rewards. If you wish to swap out your selected reward for another one, PayPal extras style, we will certainly be happy to accommodate. There is going to be a process available to backers after the campaign ends that allows you to select reward options, such as T-shirt size or the type of plane manual, as well as your shipping address. We will also work with you to make sure you receive exactly what you want for your rewards.
What exactly are you getting?
You are pre-purchasing DCS WWII: Europe 1944, an upcoming flight simulation.
The simulation will be released in fall of 2014.
Any digital rewards, such as flyable aircraft in the initial release, DCS World aircraft, or beta access, will be delivered to your email as product keys.
Any physical products will be shipped to you when they are available. Availability date is listed next to each extra.
How much is the shipping?
Domestic or international shipping is included and averaged out in each reward tier.
For international users, all physical extras will be shipped in a single package, at the time when the last ordered item becomes available.
For domestic users, we will do a maximum of two packages, in case you select one item available this year, and another item available next fall.
How do I select my extras?
We will contact you soon after the DCS WWII Kickstarter campaign ends with instructions on how to specify which extras you would like to receive. You will be able to specify the extras themselves, as well as any other options, such as a T-Shirt size.
We will contact you again before we ship out your physical extras to give you an opportunity to change your mind.
How do I specify my shipping address? What if it changes?
We will contact you soon after the DCS WWII Kickstarter campaign ends with instructions on how to specify which extras you would like to receive. If you specify physical extras, you will be able to specify a shipping address.
Since some physical items will not be mailed out for almost a year, we will contact you again before we ship out your physical extras to make sure you are still at the same address.
Will I be able to access the Kickstarter backers-only section?
Sorry, there does not appear to be a way for us to give you access to the backers-only section on Kickstarter if you are not a Kickstarter backer.
We will have a closed forum section on our official site, to which all PayPal and Kickstarter supporters will receive an invitation.
I don't understand the DCS World P-51 and FW.190D-9 Extras
DCS WWII will come out next year. DCS World is available now. You can already fly the P-51 in DCS World, while the FW.190D-9 comes out early next year, well before the release date of DCS WWII.
If you wish to fly these aircraft earlier, you can select these rewards now. The P-51 license will be issued to you soon after the Kickstarter campaign ends, while the FW.190D-9 license will be issued early next year when the DCS World version of the aircraft will become available.
Please note that the FW.190D-9 license for DCS World is only available for an $80 pledge or higher due to the fact that the product is not yet released.
What are my options for the Total Flyables column?
You can choose the appropriate number of flyable aircraft out of the following list:
Republic P-47D-28 Thunderbolt;
Supermarine Spitfire Mk IX;
Messerschmitt Bf-109K-4;
Messerschmitt Me.262A-1 (if kickstarter stretch goal is reached);
Focke-Wulf FW.190D-9;
North-American P-51D Mustang.
Please note that the FW.190 and P-51 aircraft here are the same planes as the available digital extras. The only difference is access date. The aircraft listed in Total Flyables will be available with the main release of DCS WWII, or with the alpha or beta versions if you opt in for the testing program.
Selecting these aircraft in the DCS World application simply allows you to fly their release versions before DCS WWII: Europe 1944 comes out.
Why are we not adding higher pledge options to PayPal?
Simplicity. If there is strong demand, we can reconsider. The drop-down we have can only have ten options, so we'd need to have multiple drop-downs or a dozen separate buttons, one for each option.
When will you stop accepting PayPal?
When we reach our 150K combined goal via the two sources.
Can I change or cancel my PayPal pledge?
Sure. Please contact us for a refund at any time before your rewards are sent out.
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Update 12:

 

Perhaps a little sleep deprived, DCS WWII lead developer Ilya Shevchenko answers some of the most important questions of the campaign and talks about why he's confident he can deliver on the promises made.
Please watch this video for an in-depth discussion of the project's inception as a leaner, cleaner design the team is confident they can deliver, and why the tasks that make up DCS WWII: Europe 1944 are inherently more stable than many other tasks that often are involved in game design.

 

This video took a lot longer to make than I anticipated, but I think it was very important to have this out before the campaign ends.
A question that gets asked perhaps more than any other is, are you sure you can pull this off? Can you keep all the promises you're making?
The answer is yes.
First of all, it is a yes because the alternative is unthinkable. Not delivering a product after a kickstarter campaign would not only be fatal to the developer's careers, it would also make them contractually obligated to refund the entire amount raised on Kickstarter to the backers. The team understands the risk, and has chosen Kickstarter as opposed to many other alternatives precisely because we are confident in our ability to deliver.
The project was designed from the ground up to be simple and lean. It's largely made up of three types of tasks: aircraft creation, landscape design, and mission and campaign design. All of these tasks are inherently more predictable than many other tasks often involved in game design. The feature list for DCS WWII was specifically chosen to contain as few risks as possible.
This way, the project plan is a matter of simple math. We can accurately estimate the amount of time it will take us to make the 3D models of aircraft and cockpits because we're not breaking any new ground here. We can accurately estimate the amount of time it will take to create new aircraft because most DCS WWII tasks follow the tracks laid down by DCS P-51. Looking over the blueprints and technical descriptions of all featured aircraft, we see no major tasks that have a serious risk of falling through or taking too much time and jeopardizing the entire project.
The landscape design is also predictable. We know exactly what needs to be done. All tasks can be estimated accurately because they follow preexisting examples.
Content creation, missions, campaigns, is again predictable. We are using the powerful DCS Mission Editor, a stable, established program, that again allows us to accurately gauge the amount of time needed for all tasks.
All in all, we know exactly what needs to be done. We can estimate all tasks with a high degree of accuracy. Kickstarter budget gives us a comfortable cushion to play test everything and correct any unanticipated problems we may encounter.
We are really looking forward to working with our backers, providing constant updates on the development progress, and watching this project take shape.
Please watch the video for an even more detailed explanation from the project's sleep deprived lead developer Ilya Shevchenko.
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We did it! Thank you backers! The Kickstarter Campaign is a success!
What a wonderful Saturday morning! We really pulled through in the last couple of days and we did absolutely awesome!
Current total:
Kickstarter: $158,897
PayPal: $5,436.39
GRAND TOTAL: $164,333.39
We'll be shutting down the paypal page in a few minutes to coincide with the end of the kickstarter campaign.
Please watch my celebratory video that talks about what happens next.
Quick summary:
1. Your rewards. I have to tally all Kickstarter and PayPal backers into a single database. Then we have to create a web interface for you to access backer-only content. Kickstarter by itself is no good since it leaves all PayPal backers out. There will also need to be an interface for your reward management.
It's a bit of a project, so we probably won't have it ready for a little while.
In the meantime, the only reward that can go out right away is the DCS World P-51.
If you have selected a reward tier that specifically lists the P-51, you'll be receiving your product keys via email next week.
Otherwise, the process will be completely manual for now. I'll do a backer-only update in a little while that describes this process in more detail.
2. We'll keep on working on the project as previously scheduled. We are adding the Me.262 cockpit to our task list. It'll be done by the same wonderful duo of German cockpit experts that built the FW.190D-9 and Bf.109K cockpits.
3. We will be posting regular backer-only, and slightly less regular open development updates. We'll keep you updated on our aircraft and landscape.
4. The landscape SDK! We can start a dialogue even before the SDK itself is available. Obviously, the most ideal situation that I see is that the community forms a core group of landscape designers that will, with developer support, create more landscapes for Europe 1944. Again, please stand by for a separate more detailed discussion on this.
5. The main priority for the team however is delivering a good game to backers with the features we've listed. We will work very hard to have our alpha available next year. Once that's out, we will most likely open another campaign either on kickstarter or on our own site for more additions to DCS WWII: Europe 1944. I know that a lot of people really want the flyable B-17. I think it's the most logical next step for this product, but of course we have plenty of time for discussions.
We will definitely discuss every single aspect of any future campaign with our backers before launching it.
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DCS: WW2

 

Update #16 Oct 5, 2013
Landscape Development Update - October 5, 2013
29 comments Unlike 36 likes
Hello everyone,
Here's where we are with Normandy. We haven't made any drastic changes this week, it's just progressing along the same lines. We're playing a bit with the landscape mesh and adding lots of small details such as brooks, little bridges, and so on. Also playing a bit with colors, as you'll probably notice, and adding some detail to landscape textures.
We're also working on something really cool which, to my knowledge, has never been done before in a flight sim.
The terrain can have multiple, potentially limitless, number of states that define virtually everything. What does that mean? It means we can have the early 1944 Normandy with Pointe du Hoc still intact. We can have the D-Day Normandy with bomb craters all over the coast, floodgates open, and some of the landing areas flooded. We can have the post-invasion Normandy with flooding receded and lots of new Allied airfields.
That's what we're working on right now. And actually, here comes out first request. We know what was flooded by the Germans for the invasion. However, we can't find any references on how it was dealt with. Can anyone provide some more info? What would you see on June 7, June 8, June 9?
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Esto son unas imágenes pre-pre-pre re-que-te-pre alpha, por llamarlo de alguna forma, de lo que será el teatro de operaciones del DCS WWII. Esperar que lleven algún tiempo para empezar a decepcionaros. :grin: .

 

Es que ya tenemos experiencia con El famoso Nevada de ED, llevan ya 2 años de desarrollo y está como este..... ;)

 

un saludo.

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Aclaremos. Lleva "parado" por EDGE 2 años de desarrollo, ahora se está cambiando al nuevo motor y por supuesto, las imagenes mostradas no representan el producto final.

 

Ojala silver, ya hablaremos cuando lo saquen...

 

un saludo.

 

Pues de aquí a dos semanas XIfu!!!............que desconfiado eres jombre!!!!!!

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Los muchachos de los molinillos recién desembarcados, tenemos todavía la moral por los cielos :rolleyes: .

 

Ya os la bajaran ya..... :lol: . Ojala que no, y todo vaya perfectamente, porque si no olvidaros de volar con 30 pilotos en multiplayer como haceis con el IL2. ;)

 

un slaudo.

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30? O 60 o más! y en el CloD todavía mejor! Preguntar a los que están volando la campañas de HR. Se podrán quejar de muchas cosas, pero el aspecto MP va muy bien.

 

Xifu, es por tus comentarios y otros de vuestra ala por lo que veo con desconfianza este proyecto; por muy bien que lo hagan, si los cimientos no son buenos... Espero equivocarme.

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30? O 60 o más! y en el CloD todavía mejor! Preguntar a los que están volando la campañas de HR. Se podrán quejar de muchas cosas, pero el aspecto MP va muy bien.

 

Xifu, es por tus comentarios y otros de vuestra ala por lo que veo con desconfianza este proyecto; por muy bien que lo hagan, si los cimientos no son buenos... Espero equivocarme.

 

En teoria no tiene porque, el engine grafico es nuevo y dicen que van a sacar un servidor dedicado, asi que esperemos que no tenga nada que ver este proyecto con el DCS a nivel multiplayer

 

un saludo

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30? O 60 o más! y en el CloD todavía mejor! Preguntar a los que están volando la campañas de HR. Se podrán quejar de muchas cosas, pero el aspecto MP va muy bien.

 

Xifu, es por tus comentarios y otros de vuestra ala por lo que veo con desconfianza este proyecto; por muy bien que lo hagan, si los cimientos no son buenos... Espero equivocarme.

Desconfianza y pesimismo y es que se lo han ganado a pulso, de lo que se dice o promete a los hechos ha habido mucha diferencia, primero la pifia BS2 luego llevas esperando 2 años por un mapa supuestamente que venia con el a10 y un CA que tambien venia trae cola, etc...pues te quemas y mejor no sigo.

 

Por algo sigo volando el il2 igual que tu... ;) cuando vea un Edge ya vere pero con las desastrosas actualizaciones que no se pueden instalar por que joden mas que arreglan, pues me cuentas, como poco , futuro incierto, tengo mas fe en el buen hacer de los moders desinteresados...

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No te falta razon overlord. Hay algo que no me gusta de este proyecto, y es que lo van compatibilizar con el DCS, :glare: . Que mania tienen con mezclarlo todo. No podian sacar los productos aparte?. Asi que cuando llegue el momento, tendremos otra vez en el DCS, bugs, bugs, y mas bugs.

 

un saludo.

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Nueva comentario de Illya a varias preguntas

 

Hey everybody!
Sven: We're kind of on the fence about this. By the way, you guys are really sharp. You pick up on important questions just about as soon as we do, and sometimes even earlier.
This is the very strange nature of the modular structure of the project.
What is DCS WWII? Surely it's the sum of all its parts, and taking the parts away destroys the whole? If seen this way, it's natural to sit on the planes that are ready, only make them available to kickstarter backers in alpha-beta, and launch another pledge drive for the B-17 in the interim.
But on the other hand, why not just release one or more of the new DCS WWII planes into DCS World, and use those funds to make the flyable B-17 instead?
This is something that requires a much larger backer-wide discussion I guess. We'll have it in a little while. In any case, we're months away from having any planes ready for release.
MP: I see multiplayer as a huge, huge part of any product's success. However it's not just the net code. It's the interface, the game modes, mission design, a gazillion components. Those of you who go back to the beginning of my early series will probably agree that the MP in Oleg's first flight sim was the bomb. It was so because Oleg had just created two absolutely amazing MP modes for his award-winning FPS titles (virtually unknown in the West, idolized alongside the likes of Doom and Duke3D in Russia). He had a whole crew of experienced MP programmers and designers that spent almost two years ironing out all the kinks.
So, we definitely have a long list of things we want to improve with multiplayer, but if we were to consider doing them for day 1 release of DCS WWII, we'd probably need to double our budget.
Since we didn't, the only thing I can really promise is that we'll try.
Also, trueSky looks really cool, but we're far too commited to making our own clouds and weather system to switch horses mid-jump.
Hopefully the stuff you'll see there will compare favorably to that video.
And regarding the Flight Sim show, we really should be doing a lot more stuff like that. There's always something happening somewhere, and a booth and some product boxes is a great thing to have. Unfortunately we just have no resources to attend most of them, no people to arrange and set up and man a booth, literally no one. So for the time being we'll probably just do a few major airshows, especially those connected with TFC and Duxford.
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